Q/A with Mohler/Ravi/Sproul
Started with RC rapping - it was quite entertaining.
How is it possible to say that God is responsible for evil but not guilty of it?
RC - Joseph. God's sovereignty, it is evil, but when God decrees that evil should occur - it is good that it should occur. Or the evil couldn't be hear. For God is all together good and ordains only good.
AM - Problem arises from wrong question or presumption - rather than seeing God as essentially good, we abstract an idea of good and try to measure God against that good - that is a losing proposition. What is good - God's definition of good -by consistency of HIS own Character. Also an eschatological view of it. "The damned will agree on the rightness of their damnation" - boice.
RZ - whole anti theistic movement is in knots on this issue. Where is God in all of this? They want to take Christ out of Christmas in 2004, but then they wonder on 12/26/04 where God is? They can't have it both ways.
Is evolution compatible with the Bible?
RC - Macro or micro. Micro developments within species - (yes, it is documented). Macro - is not compatible with the Bible. It is not compatible with science, either. It is historical rather than scientific
AM - Dominant part of evolution is naturalism and materialism. Darwin didn't invent evolution. Absolute naturalism - not the supernatural (GOD). NO! It is not compatible.
RZ - You are right. Risk being an outcast in the academic world. Not many things as big (or bigoted) as liberalism. Liberals are very upset with that statement.
AM - when you think about ID (it is not Creation) it would have been PR-wise - this is not a threat for evolutionists - you can't even talk about it - how odd is that?
Why did it say in Gen 1.1 that God was hovering over the waters when the waters weren't created yet? And who did Cain marry? (Jeffrey, age 8)
RC - Cain married his sister, the genealogies of the Bible were not gender sensitive - the females were not listed. The marrying of your sisters were not prohibited until later that God brought to bear after the initial law to procreate were established. They start showing up several generations later. Waters - Moses went to sleep for a second. Earth was w/o form, empty, darkness was upon the face of the deep (primordial), the idea of the abyss. The Spirit hovered over the empty darkness. Waters was not the wet stuff.
RZ - Created order was there, but the moisture component was there. An expanse between the waters. We want you on our team!
AM - Cain married his sister, and you can't marry yours.
"God hovered over the souffle" - true French translation
Is it possible that you could be wrong in any of your doctrinal positions?
RC - you might be wrong, Al. For me, it is a manifest impossibility. There is a possibility - humility. Certainty level is not constant. Some are constant - all are not equal on that level. What are the 10 things you know for sure - your own level of certainty? God hates abortion (it is impossible that God wouldn't hate it). Regeneration must proceed faith or no one would believe. I could be wrong.
AM - there is stuff we don't agree on, not at a basic level, but there are different understandings. It is quite possible the three of you are wrong. But, we can't both be right. When I face judgment, the veil will be lifted. The inadequacy of where I am now - is nothing compared to Heaven. There will be no theological debates in Heaven. One of the things we enjoy with being each other is the influence of the men on this platform - continually check your doctrine, teaching, preaching first by the Word, then by the men and their writings. Egalitarianism/Complementarianism - we must always be open to correction by the Word of God and those who love the Word.
When did P-M start and by whom?
AM - The Name of the Rose - Plato? Further and further? There is no absolute answer - but it doesn't take root in the culture until after WW2
RC - "Man is the measure of all things." - the Serpant (way back before Plato)
RZ - 1941 - the 21 civilizations.
What would characterize it?
AM - The truth issue. Rejection of universal and absolute, unchanging, and words can testify to it. All the rest is decoration.
RC - Collision course with the NT idea of truth - primary definition is that it defines real state of affairs. Reality. P-M doesn't believe in states of affairs.
What are thoughts on the Emerging (Emergent) Church and characteristics?
AM - Many different things: mood, candles, ghotees. Embrace of P-M, self-conscience embrace. Strong warning: the emergent brand is the dominant scary stuff (McClarin, rejection of the law of non-contradiction), the ooze, today's liberals were evangelicals yesterday. Continual break-offs are the sons and daughters. If you get truth wrong, forget it. If we surrender that commitment, new form of liberalism in the church. Time, McClarin was asked about homosexuality - whatever I saw will offend someone. Leadership Magazine - BM - we take a 5 year moratorium on talking about it, then come back and see if we still agree in 5 years. Abdication of conviction and cave in of Christian courage. We have the answer.
RC - It is impossible for us to be wrong? P-M terms wrong and right are not categories, but people don't like Christians because we want to re-insert those categories. We make assertions - but the EC doesn't want them. We take a stand - EC has an allergy. It appeals to the church who want to make doctrine relative. We can't be satisfied b/c truth is too important to kill it in the streets for peace. We can't do it.
RZ - "When the tide is low, every shrimp has its own puddle" This is another puddle. It makes me wonder, would these men and women bored with God? What brought this about? What brought the methodology into theology (The Secret Message of Jesus) We have non-critical people thinking about this. What does McClarin really believe? He is anti doctrinal, but he is doctrinal person.
What are the thoughts on seeker sensitive movement?
RC - very very bad thing. Rests on fundamental error. Unbelievers are desperately seeking God. Purpose of corporate worship on Sunday morning is to reach the lost. The Bible makes it clear in our fallen state no one seeks after God. Worship is supposed to be the corporate gathering of the people of God. There are going to be unbelievers - we have to address the lost in our sermons, but mainly it is the believers attending the preaching of the Word, adoration, celebration of the Lord's Supper - what is it that pleases God and not the unbeliever?
AM - Brilliant. Outdated - but the logic is still there. Level you are to see: logic: if you scratch people where they now itch - they will be more open to hearing the gospel. You'll earn their trust because you have met their needs. 2 problems: it doesn't work, they don't get to talking with the gospel. They are still on green grass (how to get it).
RC - Luther - preached on concern of despite of awakening of the reformation and the light of the gospel and was available to the people - they were still addicted to relics. Rather than read the Scriptures, they would go to their relics, the pants of Joseph, the milk of Mary - they were looking for power - in the pants of Joseph. We don't go around looking for Joseph's pants - but now are power is in the program. The Power is in the WORD! It is a strategy of unbelief. He is looking for all these techniques - if you want power - be an expositor. That is God's strategy.
RZ - can you speak on your preaching at the LDS in SLC?
Two Novembers ago, it was tough. What? I am not seeker friendly. Curious...approach face to face. Why are you asking me to do this? We respect you and our community would like to hear from you. Am I going to be used? A smoke screen? I will consider it under one condition - that I pick the subject. Exclusivity of Jesus Christ. And another - I'd like to bring my own music. Someone like Michael Card. They were accepted. Attacks came: from the Christians. Speaking in Washington - declined - but then 24 hours, Dobson, Colson - don't turn it down. Wife didn't send the letter of decline. We marry better than ourselves. Tabernacle was packed, 7k. D L Moody was the last evangelical there. Given all hour. BYU people were there. Marvelous responses. Incredible amount has taken place. Kingdom of the Cults editor. Anything that challenges the authority of the Christian faith as the Bible presents it - I'll go there and speak.
Was the Catholic church ever the true church (the RC church)?
RZ - Its RC's turn
RC - Yes, for much of its history. Heroic, embrace of theology, ecumenical council (Nicea, etc)
AM - Institutionally, the invisible and the visible church is the issue. Hesitant to speak institutionally - not all SBCers are Christians. True of every denomination, to our shame. A lot of Christians who aren't Baptists - who aren't evangelicals. The CHURCH is founded upon Jesus Christ our Lord. But look back and be thankful. Contemp context is not the same question.
RZ - if the pope were married, he would know he is infallible.
Muslim to look further - where to start?
RZ - Tough question. Basically what the M denies is everything the Christian believes at the root. Sonship, Scripture, divinity, resurrection, Crucifixion. How God is scaling the wall? Dreams are being used. God is working where the Word has been shut out - the love of God is reaching them. God cares for them. LOVE! Avoid criticising Mohammed - it puts up a wall. The failure of him will come up later after the Spirit has saved him.
AM - you spoke of martyrdom for authenticity of Scripture - what about Islamic martyrdom?
Christianity centers in apostles willing to die for the risen Christ. Wouldn't let themselves die for something that wasn't true. Calvin's point (6th point) = lives have been so transformed, willing to be martyred - a confirming sign, not the 1st sign. All scriptures are not created equal. Die for the faith, not kill for the faith. Martyrdom is not the first proof - only a confirming proof by men and women so transformed by this gospel.
RC - Bin Ladin dies and went to heaven. George Washington punched Bin Ladin in the nose - Thomas Jefferson came a karate chop. Patrick Henry spit in his face. What's all this about? Saint Peter said - 72 Virginians, not virgins.